Worshipping in Spirit and in Truth
So. Over the past post or so, we've seen a bit of a reaction about worship in the realms of vocal congregational worship. Just for this post, let's put aside the other aspects of worship (not permanently hopefully!) and focus on our views and opinions about the whole thing.
I guess I should start by saying that there has been alot said that I think could be relegated into the realms of personal taste (but that's just my personal opinion ;) ). Like, yes, I personally would love songs to take it to the next level - with Hillsong and Planetshakers it's fast becoming an annual album for a conference deal while the quality of songs gets left in the dust. I also agree that the words used and chordal patterns in many songs are getting old
However, I thought it best to recognise that we cannot move on without leaving certain things behind - by that I mean that some people do really appreciate old hymns - much more so than anything produced in the last forty years. The oldies at our church are silent right up until you pull out "What a friend we have in Jesus" and then they'll bust out with all of their frail lung capacity. It's quite humbling really, some of them sing louder than the teenagers.
And to completely discount Planet Shakers would be as ludicrous as saying that Pop music has had no impact on the musical community at large. I know many people really like Planetshakers stuff, even if the songs share not only structure but chordal basis and timbral mix. I know heaps of people enjoy singing "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs even though I personally am with Frost on this one, I don't like 'em at all.
I'd also like to say that although some words have been used to death, singing them still does resonate within me. Keith Green wrote "Your grace abounds unto me" - a phrase using old grammar but which says it so clearly still. One of my favourite songs is "As the deer". I mean, it's straight from scripture, but it still uses the word "panteth" :) Gotta love it.
Anyway. What my question is to the community at large, and please feel free to make long comments, do you feel there is a way forward which takes in all the diverse cultural, denominational and personal tastes of Christians today?
-Fin-
I guess I should start by saying that there has been alot said that I think could be relegated into the realms of personal taste (but that's just my personal opinion ;) ). Like, yes, I personally would love songs to take it to the next level - with Hillsong and Planetshakers it's fast becoming an annual album for a conference deal while the quality of songs gets left in the dust. I also agree that the words used and chordal patterns in many songs are getting old
However, I thought it best to recognise that we cannot move on without leaving certain things behind - by that I mean that some people do really appreciate old hymns - much more so than anything produced in the last forty years. The oldies at our church are silent right up until you pull out "What a friend we have in Jesus" and then they'll bust out with all of their frail lung capacity. It's quite humbling really, some of them sing louder than the teenagers.
And to completely discount Planet Shakers would be as ludicrous as saying that Pop music has had no impact on the musical community at large. I know many people really like Planetshakers stuff, even if the songs share not only structure but chordal basis and timbral mix. I know heaps of people enjoy singing "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs even though I personally am with Frost on this one, I don't like 'em at all.
I'd also like to say that although some words have been used to death, singing them still does resonate within me. Keith Green wrote "Your grace abounds unto me" - a phrase using old grammar but which says it so clearly still. One of my favourite songs is "As the deer". I mean, it's straight from scripture, but it still uses the word "panteth" :) Gotta love it.
Anyway. What my question is to the community at large, and please feel free to make long comments, do you feel there is a way forward which takes in all the diverse cultural, denominational and personal tastes of Christians today?
-Fin-
posted by Luke at 12:30 PM
9 Comments:
I've also just been thinking about this. Especially today I was just asked to pick some music to play and was delighted to find they had some oldish hymns with words.
I was going to blog about it the other day too but it got too long. The reason for that is that I've just been convicted of the need to write some real music myself.
It's no use sitting on my hands "tolerating" the current songs and hoping that they'll pull out a hymn from time to time, because people want something new and most of the stuff that's currently taking advantage of that need is.... not good enough.
This is not my taste in music talking. I don't care about the music so long as you don't play it super loud to compensate for the lack of meaningful words. Because although I do think most of the music does have a "ho-hum" sort of ring to it, it's the words I'm mostly talking about. Yes, I actually think some of the songs are doctrinely disgusting!
I usually don't say much about it (never in church) because I didn't want to criticize anything I'm not contributing to myself. Now that I've decided to contribute I don't want to use it as a license to criticise, but just think of these things.
I am not the only one who cringes when expected to sing the words of some of the songs while trying to worship God at the same time. I suspect we're not really that few at all, but no one wants to be accused of being to critical of change or some other nonsance.
People have their own stories and meanings behind songs they sing and think they're own thoughts to God, but when I was little, we used to sing songs in nursing homes to bring the gospel. No one, not knowing anything about Jesus, listening to the neutral words in most modern Christian songs is going to understand what we're singing about, let alone hear the Gospel unless the Holy Spirit tells them, but He could do that with any secular music just as well in my opnion.
OK, so you want music to be up-to-date, but historically, Christian music has led the way. What are we doing copying the world (and doing a bad job of it in my opinion). People used to be attracted by Christian music. Not just see it as, "Hey! It's actually not that bad. It's just as good as any other music I listen to.
And with some of the more rediculous music (this is a different topic really), some might think we're building a bridge to the next generation, but we are setting standards. The next generation is influenced by us more than we think. The bridge usually goes the opposite direction than was intended.
I'm not suggesting we sing in Old English, or put the grammer back to front, or jam pack the song with cumbersome amounts of information. All I'm saying is there should be something in the songs that we can actually sing about. Substance. Substance that's true and we can sing without cringing. And that when people hearing us sing wonder what we are singing so naturally about, they can just listen to the words and find out.
I mean even a song like We Three Kings, which I used to cringe about when I was little because of the whole reference to three kings and the chorus sounding like we were worshiping the star (I was more judgemental and less forgiving as a child) still gives a simple form of the Gospel (as long as you sing all five verses). And that's certainly from the lower end of an example of a better alternative. Of I'm going to mention Amazing Grace as an example of something to sing about. Oh, and if you're going to rip it off, at least make your version better. Not just a song with the same name that's similar but with the guts ripped out.
Oh drat, I mentioned a specific song. Well let's mention some others seeing as I know nobody knows what I'm complaining about. "...and thought of me above all... above all wonders, above all thrones..." does anyone else find this a little odd? I'll bet the people walking past Nightlife do. And how about actually singing something about God's love instead of singing about how we could sing about it forever, and repeating it a trillion times. I have been to a church where they never sang that line less than 15 times! I've heard that it's not the only church that does it. And the "worship leader (what are we talking about?)" sings it with his eyes closed obviously unaware that no one else is enjoying it as well as him. I know I'm being awful but this is not uncommon either. Are we singing for our own enjoyment? Who is our focus? The words of the songs hardly make it clear anymore. They very seldom mention who we're even singing about. If they are ever actually refer to God, it's too often about His power about how we want it. Or his blessings. Gimmi gimmi gimmi. Then it goes "...I feel like dancing..." and no one ever does, and then "...like we're dancing now..." and no one ever is. If we're going to sing something without clear meaning to everyone, let's sing something where the words match up with the music in a meaningful way. Like in Give Thanks, even though there's not much said, the music associated with "and now" really makes you think "and now" with excitement that something (what's been done for us) is over and we have a chance to live afresh. I don't know how the music is played on the websites I've given, because I'm on a uni computer with no sound, but I'm sure you've heard the song properly elsewhere.
Anyway, I'm critisizing because I think that what can be done is we can write better songs ourselves. Anyone who sings, sing. If you want to make things up, write down the words. Even if it's only relevent to you, I'm sure it will be much better than the little we currently have. Anyway, I've spoken too soon and hypocritical because I haven't really started yet. But I think there are others reading this who have a gift they're not using... Or we're not using because you're not sharing it. I have a friend who simply takes verses from the Bible and puts music to them. That's great! Do whatever you can. Use your gifts for God. Sing about Him. Those who are "worship leading" should be looking at this issue at the start and not just as a way to be "bit different" or "creative". And if you truly don't want to, then throw at least one hymn in. Try to find one that you can see why people like it if that's so hard.
In the meantime, people should write something that actually expresses an actual feeling or experience or truth about God.
OK, so I've said some stuff I was never going to, but can't help thinking it always. This is often a big stumbling block with me, and even more for others I know. I can tolerate it, but it's good to have something once in a while that I can sing too.
Hmm...I won't replicate the previous post in terms of length, but I'll make a couple of points, and try not be inflammatory about it. I'd say overall I'd probably concur with Mr. Lukey in that I do see the continuous output of worship music annually by the usual suspects (Hillsong, PS, Vineyard, whomever else). Recently I've also come to accept that worship music will probably never fit my tastes exactly, my personal distaste for most pop music and contemporary balladry puts out most CCM style worship stuff whilst hymns aren't especially my bag either (though they can be on occasion). So therefore, aside from being a hard to please pain in the arse (which is totally valid:P) I've come to the realisation that I'm going to have to adjust myself and my own outlook to fit in with the music produced and try and connect with God as best I can, simple as that. My own music snobbery prevents my from enjoying most worship music on a purely musical/songwriting level, so I'm in the process of just trying to see God in each song and ignore the actual musical stylings of said songs. This is easier said than done as nine times out of ten i'm in the worship band rather than the crowd, but oh well:) So yeah to surmise, try and enjoy worship music and connecting with god through that, despite the fact that a lot of the music sucks:)
Hmmkay... I might make a slight clarification. Long posts are great, but let's make them... succinct ...? But yes, thank you mathieu, I do really appreciate your input (no sarcasm intended)
My thoughts - I kinda like what Matt M was suggesting. I've been thinking that I'd like to write some songs that are like just full of stuff from scripture but sound good. However, I'm still working on finding out what's actually in scripture :P
I think it would be cool to do a sons of korah type thing using a message translation or something.. Although not in the style of music they use.. I must say that personally I don't really appreciate there style...
(*note slight sarcasm in last paragraph*)
Anyway, I might look into it more.
PS. Does anyone have any experience writing melodies for 9/8 time signatures?
Ask and ye shall receive ;-)
Cross-post with Pete.
My last comment was directed to Luke's comment!
I agree that it's all getting old etc...but my feeling is, if you don't like it or don't find that it helps you connect with/worship God, then don't listen to it or buy the CDs.... It may be the same old stuff to you, but to others its great. Planet Shakers may be churning out pop stuff, but we christians who are familiar with the christian music scene must not forget that many people are unaware there is any such thing as upbeat christian music.
A huge block for me with churches that I go to is with the music. I believe I explained this to a few people, but I grew up with a church that didn't have instruments or soloists of any kind. One of the elders would lead the congregation in hymns and to this day I have never heard singing in another church as beautiful and powerful as the ones we sang. There weren't even tons (tonnes?) of people. Maybe about 60-70 on a given Sunday.
Being in a course that focuses on entertainment, I find it difficult to sing at church with a band or a soloist because I have to resist the urge to judge their performance. I hate that I do that and being a part of Student Life definitely helped me to see the meaning behind the songs a lot clearer, but there is something about just the pure voices of a congregation singing 4-part harmony that makes me feel that I am worshipping God as I should be. Needless to say, I'm pro-hymn.
No time for a big post, and this discussion seems to have ceased.
I want to second Mathieu's comment about "...and thought of me above all... above all wonders, above all thrones...". What the hell?, indeed.
Beenleigh Baptist replace "And thought of me above all" with "And now you reign above all". I see the point in the first version: God loves us and Jesus may or may not have thought of me when he was on the cross... but, has biblical worship ever been about putting words in God's mouth? Maybe someone can give me a scripture that says that God loves me specifically above his love for everyone else.
Though not perfect, maybe "And thought of US above all" is an improvement. But I cringe at even that. Well, the song foregrounds Jesus' crucifixion - that is good. Then it puts us as the focus of it all, which, though we are totally unworthy, is the case. My cringing is probably because I find that hard to accept (I'm working on it) and harder to put on a big banner (sing about it). It just seems selfish of us. But, well, would someone please comment and sort my head out?
Actually, no need.
An epiphany: Why did Jesus go to the cross? Exclusively to obey the father. Why did the father send Jesus to the cross? Because he loved the world. That includes me, but is not limited to me as the song seems to suggest.
Funny, it's not always as clear cut as "this song is bad, that one is good". What of "Because of his great love, he gave his only son. And everything was done so you would come"? It seems fine, but I still cringe. Hmmm...
My cringe may be mainly emotional, not intellectual.
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